An Equal Rights Debate By Women From The Australian Labor Party (1939)
"...There can be no doubt that the fine spirit of comradeship which one feels in Subiaco A.L.P. will to much to popularise Labor in the district, and in due course to return a Labor member."
In 1939 women from the Perth and Subiaco branches of the Australia Labor Party met to debate the topic of equal rights for women and men. The Perth branch presented an argument for equal rights for women and men while the Subiaco branch presented an argument against. The debate was adjudicated by Dorothy Tangney who was to become the first women elected to the Senator in 1943 for the Australian Labor Party.
The debate makes some interesting observations. The debate provided an interesting history of the successful participation of women in public life, not only in Western Australia but around the world. Sweden and the Soviet Union were used as a model where by a system of equal rights had been implemented for men and women successfully. There were examples like teaching where women were paid less than men, but they trained and worked under the same conditions but did not get equal pay.
The participants against equal rights argued using the physical differences between men and women, the most important role of women was in the home, examples from the bible and that women were not only physically but mentally inferior. Men were natural leaders and women were born to follow.
Who won the debate ? There will be no spoilers for those interested in reading the article.
In conclusion the men present performed the following hostess duties "Demonstrating their equality with the women in the hostess line, some of the men (who were more numerous than the women) slipped out of the room toward the end of the debate boiled the kettle and were ready to serve the supper to all present as soon as the business ended, and to tell the whole story, they washed up afterwards."
In an article following this one titled "Labor Women Meet" stated "The New Education Fellowship was discussed at a meeting of the Perth Labor Women when it was decided to become associated with the series of lectures. Mrs. Fuhrmann was appointed delegate..." Rose Fuhrmann was to become the first woman to be elected to the Subiaco Council in 1945.
The debate was recorded by and published in the Westralian Worker. The article is from Trove, the database of the National Library of Australia. No copyright infringement intended.
Westralian Worker, 25 August 1939.
WOMEN'S SPHERE! "SHOULD WOMEN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS WITH MEN?"
What was declared by the president of the Subiaco A.L.P. (Mr. K. H. Nash) to lie a unique event took place at that suburb on August 11 when two teams of Labor women, one representing the Perth Labor Women, and the other the Subiaco A.L.P., debated the ever green subject, "Should Women have Equal Rights with Men?" The adjudicator was also a woman (Miss D. Tangney, B.A.), and the gathering was largely attended by men and women, all of whom entered so heartily info the proceedings that the result was convivial, as well as being an informative time for all concerned.
Mr. Nash occupied the chair. Perth women took the affirmative side and Mrs. Kent opened with the claim for equality for all. She said that, as citizen boards were taking such a large part in the conduct of public affairs it was essential that women should be liberally represented on them, but it was most difficult to get the powers that be to agree to that principle. Women were as necessary to licensing boards as on milk, butter and fruit boards.
Women should not only he represented in Parliament, but should be a part of the framework of Government on that everything that has to do with the welfare of children and the home life of people could get proper attention. Some men insisted that women could not stand up to the claims of high office. The world had provided many proofs that the opposite was true. Take the example of Sweden, where every position in the country was open to women, and men and women were freely scattered throughout the professions of law, medicine, art and music. The same applied to the cabinet and all the machinery of government. It was well known that there was no more peaceable and settled country than Sweden, there is practically no unemployment. The homes of the people were ample and comfortable.
There was a woman Minister for Labor in the Cabinet in the United States Mrs. Kent continued, who had done marvelous things for the workers of the country by her wisdom and courage. England also had her women Cabinet Ministers no less successful, and the country was better for it. Wherever men and women had absolutely equal rights there were the most united wives and husbands and the happiest homes.
For the opposition. Mrs. V. Lonnie (Subiaco) said that there was in the nature of things, no such principle as equality as between men and women. In primeval times a man caught his woman with a club and dragged her into a cave there to minister to him and bear and rear his children. Women being the weaker sex were glad of the protection thus offered and indeed had no choice in the matter which did not argue equality. No one of course, wants to return to such extreme subservience as that. Though today law art and the medical professions were open to them and some outstanding women were successful in these avenues, it was still a fact that women are fundamentally weaker than men. Their place is in the home rather than outside fighting for supremacy. if successful, would break home life and a woman without a home was like a man without a soul.
Nearly half a century ago women went in large numbers in order to gain votes for women, and no one could say that there had been much improvement after they gained it. Not more than ten per cent of the women exercise an intelligent vote and canvassers in elections knew how often housewives would tell them that they would ask their husbands how to vote. The speaker was of opinion that what was claimed to be a great boon to women had proved a social calamity. Those prominent professional women who had gained distinction in these spheres were nearly always masculine, having lost their femininity, and there was nothing more revolting to men than masculine women. The glory of womanhood was in rearing and carrying on the race, and they invariably lost their motherliness when they competed with men. As for equal pay for equal work, if agreed to men would get most of the jobs and so make it harder for women to get work at all.
Mrs. W. Eady (Perth) could not understand how anyone could argue that every human being was not entitled to a full life. There was inequality every where a woman teacher had to be as qualified as a man, she had to spend as much time and money on her education and preparation for this work, as she herself had proved, and yet she seldom received the same pay and had to show more ability in most cases to get job at all. So far as the work of a home went she believed that the country would benefit if women throughout life were able to do the work they were trained for whether that work was teaching or domestic duties. She felt that all would be better off of equal pay was insisted on. It was clear that capitalism had buttressed itself by playing women off against men and vice versa, and sex bias was often utilised to split the issues in strikes in the detriment of all.
The speaker pointed out that the restrictions and other limitations which were being put on the employment of women were often the cause of driving them into undesirable marriages or prostitution. Although we are so often expected to accept the theory that women should be paid less than men for the same work, it was a fact that women had to pay the same price as men for whatever goods they purchased. There were no shops at which women were charged a lower price than men and yet they were paid less.
Wherever it has been really tried out experience has shown that equality in everything makes better fathers and mothers because of the independence of character which it develops in both sexes. The Soviet Union where the principle has been in operation for over twenty years, is an inspiration in the results which are well known today the world over.
Mrs. Neal (Subiaco) said that before we can equalise we will have to wipe out, sex altogether. Women are made quite different to men and does not the Bible say that women were created to be the guides, counsellors and helpers of men? The fact, is that women have done away with their own rights by asking for too much. There was a time when men sat at a table by themselves first, and were served by the wives who ate what was left. Things had improved much since then, but some women were never satisfied and were determined to surpass men. How can there be equality?
No man could ever take a woman's place with children, and yet women were wasting their time reaching after things they shouldn't have, and by these demands were teaching children to be greedy. Women could not sit on juries and judge others because they were too sentiments: mothers' hearts could not make decisions which would bring severe punishments on others. Nor were most; women ambitious in this connection; only a few were reaching out after men's work. A few women were specially gifted, but the majority could not do men's jobs.
Mrs. Eady (Subiaco) had spoken of her experience in the teaching profession; the fact was that Mrs. Eady had kept a boy out of a job in that line. A woman marries her opportunity passes, and the boy's chance has gone. He probably has to cope with a dead end job for life. Thousands of boys are out of work because women are doing the work which they would have done. There are professions which are essentially for women nursing for example, which no man could do as well and everywhere there is said to be a shortage of nurses. In house work the same complaint applies. Many shop assistants' jobs can best be filled by women. Social welfare work is the legitimate outlet for the spare time of all women.
Mrs. S. M. Mason (Perth) said she was astounded to hear women talking confidently about the inferiority of their own sex. We cannot properly, compare today with past ages. In the average home woman is the councilor of the family exchequer, and should be able to understand the problems of finance since she had so often made 10/- do the work of £1. In this budgeting women have proved themselves superior to men and let them not forget that the big problems which press so heavily on us have been almost entirely created by men who predominate in government everywhere. How many women have had to say regarding the deluge of armaments which is being poured over the world, and though women had to provide the human fodder what chance have we had in respect of the question of building battleships? Anyone who knows the feelings of women regarding war will be able to visualise the contrast in all these things which would be in evidence if women had anything approaching an equal say in affairs at home and abroad, which so and concern them. Home would only be what was intended when women have equal rights to the fullest culture. All learning should be accessible to all that the fullest knowledge and wisdom may be evolved.
It had been said by opponents that children cared for in creches by day care in Russia would not get the attention which their own mothers could be stow, but those who had read any thing about the complete medical and nursing care which Soviet Russia was giving to all its children in the way of trained nurse-teachers in the nursery schools that the children there would be given more scientific service than individual Australian mothers could give their children. Men and women were born equal. No one brought anything into this world and although women may be physically weaker, given their right to full development there was nothing to prevent them being mentally stronger.
Mrs. Williams (Subiaco) declared that physically and temperamentally women were inferior to men. Was not Adam made first and the woman from a part of him? She agreed that women who engaged in men's activities became square built and of heavy masculine appearance. This was especially so in the world of sport, and as exemplified in the last Olympic Games, when the mannish appearance of some of the women caused other competitors to demand a medical examination to determine the sex of starters. Much of this equality was forgotten when it was realised that while men competed with such women they married the "fluffy" in preference. She was convinced that this spurious claim of equality with men had preluded the "sissy" type of man who having lost pride in being the dominant bread winner.
Replying for Subiaco. Mrs. Lonnie said that three speakers had said that women were mentally inferior to men and with that she agreed. As to women being on boards what was to stop them putting; up their case through the men who occupied these seats. A man-made world was the least of two evils. The fight between Capital and Labor creates more poverty and misery than the mistakes of ordinary men, and when women take sides it makes matters worse. She did not think that Russians could be as well qualified without home life as we should he with it. Women were not equal to men. Man is the natural leader, women must follow.
Mrs. Kent, replying for Perth, said that their opponents had put up an excellent case for a defenseless cause. It should he clear that women do not want supremacy. Like men, women are severally fitted for different kinds of work and should have flip same right to engage in it. She again thanked the opposition for so ably defending a lost cause. All women do not want positions : all we ask for is equal rights and equal opportunity.
The adjudicator. Miss Tangney complimented all speakers all the preparation of their mater and advised each one separately in respect: of methods, mannerisms. etc., especially Subiaco which had worked hard to prove something which never could be proved. She knew the opposition had its tongue in its cheek. She awarded the victory to Perth women!
In a graceful and sporting speech Mrs. Lonnie moved a vote of thanks to the adjudicator, and agreed with her verdict.
Mrs. Kent seconded the motion, which was enthusiastically carried. Demonstrating their equality with the women in the hostess line, some of the men (who were more numerous than the women) slipped out of the room toward the end of the debate boiled the kettle and were ready to serve the supper to all present as soon as the business ended, and to tell the whole story, they washed up afterwards.
There can be no doubt that the fine spirit of comradeship which one feels in Subiaco A.L.P. will to much to popularise Labor in the district, and in due course to return a Labor member.
The photograph is of the adjudicator Dorothy Tagney. She was later to become the first woman elected to the Australian Senate.
The photograph is of Ruth Fuhrmann, the first female councilor in Subiaco. The photograph was published in the Westralian Worker, 21 August, 1942.
